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learn how to make perfume In the end, I don't know were you took the 30% NAOCL concentration figure but it sure look bizarre. First & above all, at such a concentration for the "Known" product, how can one expect not having problems with crystallization? A high NAOH concentration is required. It may be a slurry. Second, in any and all water (Since we're talking 'bout an aqueous solution?), there will be a minimal amount of free radical. Which is not "Healthy" for the "Free Chlorine" present in such a solution. Not only dangerous for the chemical stability of chlorine, but for yourself and the peoples surrounding you! I'm considering here the fact that you mentioned that you are located in "Sort of" a remote region where you don't have access to the highest NAOCL concentrations usually found in industries. Have a look on the link I provide here below. It talks about the industrial technic how Arkema gets the highest NAOCL concentration.Note that Arkema concentation is in terms of free chlorine, hum? You would have been much better to ask what other chemicals can be use to substitute NAOCL for that type of chemical reaction. Have you ever heard of calcium hypochlorite, it's a solid. Less water soluble but still, functional. If I'd be an Arkema sale's rep, I wouldn't sell a highly concentrated NAOCl normally sold in special sealed tankers for paper bleaching, for instance. Switch to calcium hypochlorite instead or another oxydant. Don't play with such chemicals. That is the proper way to go unless you don't want that "Chemical reaction" to be disclosed for reasons that anybody in here can easily guess. If you can see what I mean.... Huh? In some other words, I can give the "Scheme" of a given chemical reaction and nobody in here or anybody else on any other ReasearchGate discussion board could sease or take over the foreseen technology being discussed. In short, I don't see why anyone would play "Hide & Seek". Beside, let me take for granted that you have you done your homework, searching a minimal amount of research on the web? -Ok then, who apart Arkema is the biggest NAOCL producer worldwide? What is their process, how do they get their highest concentration? I don't know if "Lyudmyla Nilsen" is a pretty woman but she is nice when she says: - "He can buy 6% solution in shop, but he wants to prepare 30% solution from it. I said it's impossible". She is totally right. This is where it ends. Lyudmyla is right! Because, it is not the best route to go along. Have a look on the solid calcium derivative. You can push the given expected reaction forward by heating. Pierre. http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=arkema+NaOCl++synthesis+Concentration+high+highest&source=web&cd=1&ved=0COYDEBYwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fprodawl.arkema.com%2Fsites%2Fgroup%2Fen%2Fcorporate%2Fstrategy%2Fbleach_solutions.page&ei=Fe0gUMe7DIbx0gHWoYHABQ&usg=AFQjCNH5T-FtW8qKUxMI9u01-OJL6S8LMg Aug 7, 2012 · Recommend Aniz.C.U C.U · Kannur University Dinesh........whats up....have u learned anything? Aug 7, 2012 · Recommend Krishna Verma · Rani Durgavati Vishwavidyalaya Pass chlorine into concentrated NaOH and prepare any concentration of NaOCl. In lab chlorine can be prepared by adding concentrated HCl over potassium permanganate (in a flask with suitable arrangement you need to make). Care, chlorine is very toxic gas. In case of inadvertant accident, wash the affected area with lime water (gurgle as well) and then with liberal quantity of pain water; see a doctor. 6% to 30% is an insane idea, as above discussions for NaOCl. Aug 7, 2012 · Recommend Krishna Verma · Rani Durgavati Vishwavidyalaya Sorry. In my comment please read 'plain water' for 'pain water.' Anyway, it gave a good humour as well. Aug 7, 2012 · Recommend cha manga Ilunga · Baltimore City Community College Dear Dinesh Kumar, My apology for answering this late. I am on vacation until the end of August. But I will try to answer your question here. Q. How can I make 6% NaOCL (Sodium hypochlorite) into a 30% aqueous NaOCL? Discussion: You are talking about turning a diluted aqueous solution of NaOCL into a concentrated one. The amount of NaOCL in both solutions will be the same both on molar basis and formula weight. Therefore the fomula to be used is as follows: Vd x Percentage = Vc x Percentage (Vd=Volume of diluted solution; Vc=Volume of concentrated solution) Assuming we have on hand 100 mL of 6% NaOCL = Volume of diluted solution. This will lead to the formula 100 mL x 6% = Y mL x 30% (100 mL x 6%)/30% = Y mL Cancelling out the % in the division we end up with following 600 mL/30 = 20 mL So to get a 30% aqueous solution from a 6% NaOCL solution, simply evaporate your 100 ml of 6% up to 20 ml. And you will the concentrated solution you are looking for. Hope to hear from you very soon Cha Manga Ilunga Aug 7, 2012 · Recommend3 Recommendations Hema Latha · The Erode College of Pharmacy & Research According to me we cannot prepare a concentrated solution from a dilute or less concentrated solution. You must prepare a concentrated solution like 60% and the dilute to 30%. you can use this solution for preparing more number of dilute solutions. Aug 23, 2012 · Recommend1 Recommendation Santi Kongmany · National University of Laos normally, increasing the target concentration the aqueous solution can be done by removing some water from the solution while the solute still remain in the solution. This may be done by evaporation at some elevate temperature under reduced pressure. However, it may not work well since it depends on the the physical and chemical property of the target compound (solute) in the solution. sometime Na2SO4 powder may be used to remove water from solution if there is no reaction between Na2SO4 and the solute. Therefore, one may try this method to solve this problem. Sep 19, 2012 · Recommend Martin Johnson I have successfully produced a saturated solution of sodium hypochlorite from a 6% solution by rotary evaporation under reduced pressure. Thus, a commercial 6% NaOCl bleach solution ("Clorox" here in the USA) is readily concentrated at using a water pump to provide the necessary vacuum and a water bath of about 40 C temperature. It does take a while, and the solution should be used within a week or so as it decomposes over time. I have made several gallons this way. Sep 19, 2012 · Recommend1 Recommendation Martin Johnson As noted above, hypochlorite decomposes at elevated temperatures so a vacuum level of 40 torr or less, and a bath temperature of about 40 C, is recommended. And use a rotovap!! simple distillation of aqueous solutions takes forever. Sep 19, 2012 · Recommend1 Recommendation Dr.Umesh Laddi · Channabasaveshwara Institute of Technology Yes I agree with Jorge Gonzalez, now industrially Hooker process, is the only large scale method of sodium hypochlorite production. In the process, sodium hypochlorite (NaClO) and sodium chloride (NaCl) are formed when chlorine is passed into cold and dilute sodium hydroxide solution. It is prepared industrially by electrolysis with minimal separation between the anode and the cathode. The solution must be kept below 40 °C (by cooling coils) to prevent the undesired formation of sodium chlorate and as @Martin Johnson suggested, I think 6% is viable by rota use..... Sep 20, 2012 · Recommend1 Recommendation Adeleye Okewole · Rhodes University Interesting! Sep 28, 2012 · Recommend Vasant Phadke · Not possible Sep 29, 2012 · Recommend Rabah Khalil · University of Mosul Have you tried my previous suggestion of removing water molecules through adding drying agent such as silica gel or calcium chloride then removed by filtration in order to concentrate your solution.. Sep 29, 2012 · Recommend1 Recommendation Shahid Ameen Samra · Korea Research Institute of Chemical Technology What if you take the commercially available 60% Ca(OCl)2 tablets (as Jorge Gonzalez Gonzalez referred to, above), make a solution of theirs as 60% Ca(OCl)2 and then treat it with a 60% Na2CO3 solution. CaCO3 got separated as ppt and removed by filtration may provide you with the desired solution. (Note: Due to the opposite nature, acidic and basic, of Ca(OCl)2 and Na2CO3 respectively, some of the product may be lost but you can get a concentrated solution.) Oct 2, 2012 · Recommend Pierre Tanguay · Working in industrial chemical R&D full time. Brillant Shahid! I didn't though of it because highly concentred NaOCl is sort of a standard raw material everywhere. Mostly, shall I state?... Taking care of watching the pH as one proceed to the ionic exchange (Na for Ca), the precipitate should separate at an excessive concentration. We all know (As stated in a few comments in here) that a rather high pH (10-11) is an absolute necessity to stabilise NaOCl. I guess that a good monitoring of the pH during the ionic exchange is a plus to reduce the losts. Though, no one can guarantee the obtained % NaOCl will be at the % solid that Dinesh need. Yet, your suggestion is the best one I seen up to now. Makes me think of the calcium ethoxyd I once wanted to try in a "Simplified" (Industrial) method of obtaining calcium grease... Automotive antirust coating... You know where most "If not all" calcium ethoxyde if produced? I mean at an industrial level...? None in N-America... The Chineses have it all but they sell only by truck load! What about the peoples who want to recyle wastes of vegetable oil into fuel? To whom does the Americans or Indians can turn to? Trucks loads??? Misery! 2 years passed by & didn't find any equivalent to Alox 2211Y, rheology modifier for organic phases. Barff, just a comment... Pierre. Oct 2, 2012 · Recommend Shahid Ameen Samra · Korea Research Institute of Chemical Technology Dear Pierre, thanks for your comments. Regarding your wording about calcium ethoxide, I'm not getting the point, would you plz clarify it? Also regarding recycling vegetable oil. regards shahid Oct 2, 2012 · Recommend Pierre Tanguay · Working in industrial chemical R&D full time. To Shahid... Well, some ~5 years ago, I had a "US Patent" in which sort of a young dude (BSSC graduate at Lubrizol) filed his US patent regarding an easy method to produce sort of a plasticizer for "Economical" plastic materials. Outdated patent not legally protected anymore. I still have that Patent, Word's format. Factually, it was based on a partial saponification of recycled vegetable grease. Why partial? Because the non-fully saponified triglycerides, namely, the monos and diglycerides act as surfactants to keep the final media homogenous. I studied to possibility of using this vegetable calcium grease as a binder for rust proofing road vehicles. Optimizing the ratio of lime (Ca+2..) with an average molecular weight of the recycled veggy oil and for sure, using a better hydrolysis catalyst than the volatile acetic acid. I proceeded to this chemical chemical reaction into a home kitchen fryer to attain some 180C. I have quite a good planetary mixer under my fume hood. I began to have good results at 220C but as I used better catalysts, I succeeded to reduce the temperature and got a quicker reaction. The best performances were with a titanate, once owned by Dupont of Nemours now owned solely by an Indian company. However, no sales within the Canadian province where I work. That made the price of that titanate non-viable! 180C being the lowest temperature I could obtain the solid calcium grease before diluting it in a proper "Weak, low KB) hydrocarbon (Flash point legal regulation, left aside the new VOC regulations), my boss, the company owner called for an evaluation of the cost for installing a proper electrical device into an old 2,000 litres double wall kettle we had in production for obvious reasons. Hum... Some $5,000 - $10,000... And what will we do if the "Biodegradability Frenzy" disappear for the antirust coating in a year or 2 at most?... My boss shows back telling me to find another method that affords somewhat the same product but close to room temperature! He doesn't want to invest... May you note here that we didn't investigate any further since then and that for now, we still don't have any antirust coating to provide to the customers who are asking us for an equivalent to the formulation that we produced for some ~5 years back then. One of the most important chemical in this formulation was Alox-2211Y, a blend of calcium salt of petroleum sulfonic acid, calcium salts of somewhat polymerized fatty acid with a small amount of calcium salts of oxidized waxes. We stopped producing that formulation as the "Corporate" Lubrizol decided to stop producing Alox-2211Y sometime after they bought Gateways Additives, US. So, while working on other R&D projects, I was lurking on the Internet on what other methods could bring about the same calcium grease at close to room temperature. And I stumbled on a technical article about biofuel, in which a new method of producing calcium salts of fatty acids was mentioned. Hey Shahid, if one doesn't want to give (See pay $) energy (Heat) to get a chemical reaction going, what other mean there could be? Intrinsic thermodynamic of the reacting chemical(s). You must have heard how sodium methoxide is a "Little" violent toward water? But in the concerned preparation, what we want is a calcium salt to afford a somewhat soluble salt of fatty acids into a saturated poorly volatile, low KB, hydrocarbon solvent. As a conclusion to this whole "Blah-Blah", you may well have a look in the Internet to see what company is in a position to produce and sell solid calcium ethoxide. Where on planet earth they be located? At the same time, what company shows up if you type this string of characters into Google's advanced search engine: "Calcium sulfonate" OR Calcium petroleum sulfonate" thixotropic Else, this one: "Calcium sulfonate" OR Calcium petroleum sulfonate" "Rheology modifier" By the way, you ain't gonna find Alox 2211Y technical data sheet or its MSDS because it doesn't exist anymore. I may be one of the last one that it. Later on, I began to stoechiometrically neutralize economical "Tall oil fatty acids" with hydrated lime in presence of docecylbenzene sulfonic acid to obtain a rheologically active derivative that also has an antirust property through its "Water displacement" nature. Again... (105-115) C to be kept during ~ (15-20) minutes? With a minimal amount of N,N diethylhydroxylamine to protect the insaturation of the fatty acid? Nah! My company being an important chemical producer of automotive maintenance products is now idling on this case. I just meant that I done my best. Pierre. Oct 2, 2012 · Recommend Jingwen Chen · Yancheng Insitutute of Technology Good idea! Oct 7, 2012 · Recommend Pierre Tanguay · Working in industrial chemical R&D full time. Yes Jingwen, I know, I know.... It's you guys the Chineses, who have it all... Talking 'bout calcium ethoxide. I seen 2 Chinese Cie & contacted one by email. The "Volume" wouldn't be big enough to ship oversea. Bwarff! I don't care much anymore. Done what I could & that was that. There's an England Cie that offer sort of Alox-2311Y. A solid product. Smaller Cie that a few Croda chemists bought Croda division handling the industrial processing of lamb grease wool. Not much interested in export as well. I talked to them last year... Plus this other US Cie using regular (Low flash) mineral spirit as its calcium grease carrier (60%Solids). Totally useless! Left with this other US Cie who sell its good (70% total solids) at a little bit more than $6.00/Kg, which rise the RMC prices at some $4.00/litre? Being so for a whole year: - "Hop to the next R&D project"! Case's closed, but may you note that we have a production facility in Nantong, China. We do not produce automotive antirust coatin over there either. Maybe you know that many parts of China are far from being tropical regions? Who could imagine Iran Khodro having rust problems with their cars? Pierre. Oct 7, 2012 · Recommend Subramanian K Dr · Central Electrochemical Research Institute As JORGE GONZALEZ statement is wrong. No powder form of NaClO could be obtained by any method. I agree with Sabyssachi. Heating /evaporation will lead to the formation of sodium chlorate (NaClO3) only. Stability of NaClO is mostly depends upon pH of the solution and it is stable at above pH 7 only. Electorchemically we can produce only about 1-2% NaClO. But chemical reaction with Chlorine gas and con NaOH will lead to higher percentages of NaClO but pH of solution will be >13. Oct 10, 2012 · Recommend2 Recommendations Pierre Tanguay · Working in industrial chemical R&D full time. Well said Dr SUBRAMANIAN, pH is of an outmost importance here, and at 13, it ain't no exageration. I remember seeing an old drum of a concentrated NaOCl left over, an idustrial raw material. After the opening up the screwed plastic stopper (PolyPro drum), the smell of chlorine was not that bad. I mean, that I had reasons to believe that the drum was that old, it just couldn't be trusted. All this, after we bought the left overs of a company that shutted down its operations. There was good products, solid fatty acids among others but... I really think that if one want a NaOCl up to the highest % possible, it needs to be prepared "On the spot". That was why I wondered (See previous comments) what was the chemical reaction (Mechanism) the end-user had in mind... NaOCl is not the only oxydant one may make good use of... The real help that could have been provided was to review the use of NaOCl and the goal behind it (Chemical reaction), if any... If not aseptisation... That remained unknown... Pierre. Oct 10, 2012 · Recommend2 Recommendations Subramanian K Dr · Central Electrochemical Research Institute Bill gates, if you freeze the NaClO soln, the content % of NaClO will not change at all. Physical method of concentration of NAClO soln is not possible. Oct 16, 2012 · Recommend Pierre Tanguay · Working in industrial chemical R&D full time. Yes, Dr SUBRAMANIAN, I'd add: -For such a common raw material, why wouldn't anybody wouldn't have though of freezing it to get rid water before? Because, this chemical needs to be in a "Ionic Media" to provide the expected chemical reaction and an "Oversaturated" solution (EG: A slurry) is far from being useful if one is looking for the action of NaOCl. Unless one only wants to store the raw material. But the question was not presented under that concept. Pierre. Oct 16, 2012 · Recommend Govardhana Rao Muthineni · Gujarat Narmada Valley Fertilizers & Chemicals Ltd. High purity Hypo is avaiable in powder form whose NaOCl concentration is more than 40 %. You can use that powder to prepare 30% aqueous NaOCl solution Oct 23, 2012 · Recommend Sönke Schmachtel · Aalto University Found an article about NaOCl-NaCl-NaOH-H2O "The phase diagram of sodium hypochlorite-sodium chloride-sodium hydroxide-water quaternary system at 10°C" Oct 23, 2012 · Recommend daniel chiejina Ekpechi · National Institute for Pharmaceutical Research and Development, Abuja Nigeria in my opinion i believe in what sarkar said that is the only way to get Naocl, or you can try purchasing Caocl as it does the same function if it is a bleaching agent your looking for Mar 18, 2013 · Recommend1 Recommendation Sabyasachi Sarkar · Indian Institute of Engineering Science and Technology, Shibpur Thanks as by large people understood the classical chemistry of chlorine gas with sodium hydroxide solution. We can not go against thermodynamics and kinetics as these two important fundamentals dictateany chemical reaction. Some one wrote Hypo, kindly try to understand that is sodium thiosulfate. Bleaching powder could be alternative but I have no practical idea if it can be 30% enriched. Further it is not readily soluble. An alkaline solution of hypochlorite even on aging at normal temperature will respond to disproportionation which is accelerated on warming or heating.If the need for such 30% is essential then that is not practicable. And that lead to the doubt what reaction one has to do with hypothetical 30% of hypochlorite? Mar 18, 2013 · Recommend1 Recommendation Devanand Parekh · Maharaja Krishnakumarsinhji Bhavnagar University You can prepare Solid NaOCl as a powder and then use it as what ever % solution you want. Don't you have method to make it? If not, please reply here, then I will check and forward it to you. Mar 21, 2013 · Recommend1 Recommendation Henrik Rasmus Andersen · Technical University of Denmark Solid NaOCl is not available from chemical suppliers. It must be unstable. I don't believe in preparing a solution from CaOCl as this chemical has a limited solubility of just 210 g/L (21 %; see Wikipedia for reference) and the molar weight is higher than NaOCl so an equivalent solution of CaOCl in terms of chlorine content would be 143 g/mol/74 g/mol*30% = 57% = 570 g/L. As mentioned above the preparation method must either be to remove water using rotavapor (reduced pressure) and temperatures less than 40 C or collecting chlorine gas in a NaOH solution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_oxychloride Calcium hypochlorite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Mar 25, 2013 · Recommend Sabyasachi Sarkar · Indian Institute of Engineering Science and Technology, Shibpur Dear Devanand Parekh: NaOCL is unstable and can not be isolated as pure solid. Even in dilute alkaline solution slowly it responds to disproportionation reaction to form chlorate and chloride Passing chlorine gas through NaOH solution is exothermic reaction and even under ice cooled solution one can not get enhanced concentration as under strong alkaline solution the same disproportionation reaction sets in. As I said earlier the question to get high concentration of NaOCl is hypothetical and can not be achived in the laboratory Mar 25, 2013 · Recommend Devanand Parekh · Maharaja Krishnakumarsinhji Bhavnagar University See attached file for synthesis of Solid NaClO.5H2O NaClO_Synthesis.docx Mar 25, 2013 · Recommend1 Recommendation Sabyasachi Sarkar · Indian Institute of Engineering Science and Technology, Shibpur Dear Mr. Parekh Kindly provide us this procedure published in a peer reviewed Journal ( reference etc). Particularly the mode of analysis done on the finally collected white crystal so that such a formulation can be made. Has this been structurally chareacterised? Is the oxidising power has been evaluated ?If so then by which method to distinguish this from chlorate? What could be the relative stability? If it is not published then I would recommend that kindly publish it in Inorganic Synthesis. Here the editor will appoint couple of people who will repeat the procedure described and once found OK will be published. In this way great service can be provided to the scientific community. Apr 6, 2013 · Recommend2 Recommendations Devanand Parekh · Maharaja Krishnakumarsinhji Bhavnagar University This procedure which I described earlier on 25th March, is a reference from a very famous book. " Handbook Of Preparative Inorganic Chemistry" - Vol. I @ II. Edited By Brauer. May 2, 2013 · Recommend2 Recommendations Sabyasachi Sarkar · Indian Institute of Engineering Science and Technology, Shibpur Thank you providing the published metthod. But one should add the properties displayed by this compound if one really wants to make 30 % solution of this. The properties described by the authors : A. Sunfourche. L. Gardent, Bull. Chem. Soc. France, vol- 35, page 1089, 1924 are: The colorless crystals melting at 18 degree Centigrade in their own water of crystallizations. This melt decomposes easily. By dehydration in vacuum over conc, sulfuric acid, largely anhydrous NaClO is obtained however it tends to decompose explosively. It decomposes by the presence of CO2 in air. Now one should understand the stability of this and practically how one can handel this to get 30% aqueous solution is questionable as once in solution it is not stable at that high concentration. Another important issue here that it is normally expected that one should highlight if there is any thermodynamically unstable system with the possibility of explosion is involved. May 2, 2013 · Recommend2 Recommendations Can you help by adding an answer? 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All rights reserved.About us · Help Center · Careers · Developers · News · Contact us · Privacy · Terms · Copyright | Advertising · Recruiting or Discover by subject area Join for free Log in ResearchGa How can I make 6% NaOCl (sodium hypo chlorite) into a 30% aqueous NaOCl solution?. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_can_I_make_6_NaOCl_sodium_hypo_chlorite_into_a_30_aqueous_NaOCl_solution12 [accessed Jul 11, 2017].